Algorithmic Trading Group Forum - Where to sell trading ideas?

IkkiAbaki Newbie Offline I like this forum! Posts: 3	Where to sell trading ideas? 08/17/11 at 16:54:12 Hello trading enthusiasts! Is anyone aware of a forum/market to sell trading ideas? Internet searches do not bring up anything in this space. Does it mean there is no demand and supply of it?
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Algo Designer Forum Administrator Offline Nihil desperandum Posts: 182 Sydney Gender:	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #1 - 08/21/11 at 10:26:21 Are trying to find a place to sell your trading ideas?
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IkkiAbaki Newbie Offline I like this forum! Posts: 3	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #2 - 08/21/11 at 14:58:05 Potentially, long-term. At this point, just interested if such market exists and how it works.
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Algo Designer Forum Administrator Offline Nihil desperandum Posts: 182 Sydney Gender:	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #3 - 08/29/11 at 00:56:16 How did you test your trade ideas?
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IkkiAbaki Newbie Offline I like this forum! Posts: 3	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #4 - 08/29/11 at 12:23:09 I implement the algorithm and run it against historical data
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I like Rothbard

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #5 - 09/15/11 at 01:37:52

no one wants to buy ideas..most are too skeptical...they want to see your account records...if they see they positive returns then you will be able to get people to listen. People like to hear some fundamentals absed logic behind the algorithm...but if you show + returns with real money you will get interested parties to shares profits with you...doubtful you'll ever find anyone just give you cash for an idea. Cry

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« Last Edit: 09/15/11 at 06:06:34 by Algo Designer »

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Algo Designer Forum Administrator Offline Nihil desperandum Posts: 182 Sydney Gender:	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #6 - 09/15/11 at 06:08:14 Does it not make sense? If the author is not prepared to risk money invested in his/her own idea, why would anyone else?
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speedmon

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #7 - 09/17/11 at 23:51:52

Ikki,
The other two gentlemen are correct. To most people...a successful algo can only be measured by the REAL profit it produces over time. I can optimize an algo for history, but that would be rigged, not real.

I can also say from experience that its more profitable to run your algo in-house than it is to sell it. Most professionals will want to just steal the concept anyway and that is difficult to prevent during the due diligence process of a sale.

I own an engineering firm and we build algo software for all sorts of folks who have all sorts of wacky ideas.....But our inhouse stuff that works...that really works, I would never sell.....why?...because its a perpetual money machine and thats invaluable.

I'm always open to new ideas, I do pay for them, and I don't need a P&L. I just need the concept described and I'll tell you if I'm interested. If I'm interested you tell me how much you want for it and if we can agree on a price then you can show me the detail......

Post your email or something or send me a PM and we'll see if you have something that might work.

I wish this site were more popular.

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Algo Designer

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #8 - 09/18/11 at 06:51:56

Speedmon,

I like your comments. This site will naturally become popular if it has more members like you.

Selling shovels during the gold rush is a very pragmatic approach. I am glad that you have found the strategies that work for you and your company. Selling them would not make any sense from my perspective.

Perhaps you could share some of your experience in building your own firm with the other members of the forum.

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speedmon

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #9 - 09/19/11 at 18:47:39

Sure.....
Sorry for lurking for a long time and not posting but I think its hard to understand what I could contribute.

My experience in building the firm......I supply resources to institutions who want to automate or augment their trading. Its a service company much like any other. Its a very cut-throat industry as designs and code are easily stolen and security is always a large concern.

You'd be amazed at how much money folks throw at wacky ideas and how long they are willing to lose money before they change.....but just look at hedge fund profits this year....some are down 40%.

On the algo design side.......advice? Be less concerned with tech and more with the algo rules and profitability. And data aggregation is just as important as the algo rules.

For example, one of our most profitable "programs" has computer gen'd signals but manual execution of orders because the exchange does not allow computer gen'd orders with that instrument.

Good Luck!

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cjforex

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #10 - 09/22/11 at 06:31:23

There are also some algorithms that are "thin" in that based on their volatility and return rate require larger funds and infrastructure to generate profit from. I always come across algos like that in my own personal development. I just label them thin, and move on.

In other words, they work, I just can't afford to trade them.

I know of a friend that specializes in them, and was forced to partner with someone to implement them.

So putting up your own money is the logical option, but not always a choice.

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Algo Designer

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #11 - 09/23/11 at 13:20:02

Thank you for your comments, speedmon.

The function of the folks with "wacky" ideas is to provide liquidity and help the price discovery process. They must enjoy the thrill of trading as well.

"Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing." -- Ed Seykota

I agree with your comments on the importance of the rules, their profitability (supported by a rigorous back-testing process) and the quality of the data. Fancy tech can wait until the core strategies are selected and deployed.

speedmon wrote on 09/19/11 at 18:47:39:

Sure.....
Sorry for lurking for a long time and not posting but I think its hard to understand what I could contribute.

My experience in building the firm......I supply resources to institutions who want to automate or augment their trading. Its a service company much like any other. Its a very cut-throat industry as designs and code are easily stolen and security is always a large concern.

You'd be amazed at how much money folks throw at wacky ideas and how long they are willing to lose money before they change.....but just look at hedge fund profits this year....some are down 40%.

On the algo design side.......advice? Be less concerned with tech and more with the algo rules and profitability. And data aggregation is just as important as the algo rules.

For example, one of our most profitable "programs" has computer gen'd signals but manual execution of orders because the exchange does not allow computer gen'd orders with that instrument.

Good Luck!

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"Success is the sum of small efforts, repeated day in and day out..."

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Algo Designer

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #12 - 09/23/11 at 13:33:59

I call them "borderline" strategies. Some of them are widely employed. Because of the relatively high proportion of transaction costs and urge to be "accurate", have superior returns and high Sharpe ratio (typically due to a sampling error), many algorithmic traders and hedge fund managers employ high leverage. Majority of such endeavours implode due to the negative skewness of returns specific to the "borderline" strategies.

The short-term alpha provided by the "borderline" can, however, be useful in market-making strategies complementing the positive edge of the spread.

cjforex wrote on 09/22/11 at 06:31:23:

There are also some algorithms that are "thin" in that based on their volatility and return rate require larger funds and infrastructure to generate profit from. I always come across algos like that in my own personal development. I just label them thin, and move on.

In other words, they work, I just can't afford to trade them.

I know of a friend that specializes in them, and was forced to partner with someone to implement them.

So putting up your own money is the logical option, but not always a choice.

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"Success is the sum of small efforts, repeated day in and day out..."

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speedmon

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Re: Where to sell trading ideas?
Reply #13 - 09/23/11 at 21:29:58

I think the point I was trying make was......it is far easier to find MONEY than it is to find a successful algo.

And if you have a successful algo.....your own money will multiply geometrically...because what you can do with 1 dollar you can do with 10.....just add a zero and another and another.

Once you sell it or expose it to a "partner" you end up limiting your revenue and increasing your risk of loss......

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Algo Designer Forum Administrator Offline Nihil desperandum Posts: 182 Sydney Gender:	Re: Where to sell trading ideas? Reply #14 - 09/23/11 at 22:41:18 That makes perfect sense!
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